“It wasn’t Putin who forced me”

A conversation between Pavlo Rybaruk and Vladimir Nedozhogin in a Russian POW camp in Ukraine

In 2024, Ukrainian war journalist and local producer, Pavlo Rybaruk and photographer, AG went together to a Russian POW camp in Western Ukraine. They wandered the grey prison on what Pavlo describes as “a weird, wild hunt for conversations with people that don’t want to talk.” Most of their interviews went as one might expect. The prisoners nodded when asked if they were treated well, said that they hated Putin and that they were against the war. Some of them even emphasized that they had no desire to ever return to Russia.

But then the unexpected occurred. Pavlo and AG entered a room for disabled POWs with amputations, the space reeked of wounds. Pavlo began chatting with 37-year-old prisoner of war, Vladimir Nedozhogin. Nedozhogin, whose foot had been amputated, is from Volgograd, formerly-Stalingrad, a proponent of Putin’s war. As he confronted the Ukrainian, a conversation began to unfold that was far from ordinary.

Two men, one a Ukrainian interested in music, history and art, the other a prisoner of war who openly takes the side of Putin and of Russia. Two men on different sides of this war began a brutally honest, wide-ranging dialogue about the war, imperialism and what counts as truth, all the while standing in a prison in the middle of Ukraine. What follows is a transcript of their conversations, as well as AG’s photos of the prison.

Pavlo Rybaruk: How did you become part of the Russian army?

Vladimir Nedozhogin: I signed a contract in January 2024 and on February 29 I was captured. I served a little less than a month.

Pavlo: How were you captured?

Vladimir: We went on a mission, we came under fire. I didn’t know which way to go. There was artillery shelling for five days. We reached the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. I was wounded and had frostbite. This is a 4th degree frostbite amputation. [Part of his foot was amputated]

Pavlo: Where are you from?

Vladimir: Volgograd.

Pavlo: What were you doing before?

Vladimir: Cleaning business.

Pavlo: Why did you sign the contract to fight?

Vladimir: Patriotism.

Pavlo: What do you think motivates this war?

Vladimir: Honestly? Obviously not people. Money. Every war is about money.

Pavlo: Is Russia an aggressor?

Vladimir: Since when?

Pavlo: What do you mean, since when? Since Chechnya? Since Georgia?

Vladimir: Well, let’s start there, where did Chechnya begin?

Pavlo: You tell me.

Vladimir: Who motivated the Chechen war?

Pavlo: The national sentiment of Chechnya, which is of course fatal for Russia, or at least steps on its heels.

Vladimir: What if we dig even deeper? Who sponsored all this?

Pavlo: Well, who? Did America sponsor Chechnya?

Vladimir: Please, you answered your question yourself. I just wanted to hear you say it.

Pavlo: I understand what you think even before you think it.

Vladimir: I don’t think you do.

Pavlo: How many people here [in the prison] share such views?

Vladimir: I don’t know. I am solely responsible for myself.

Pavlo: You made contact, you are ideologically motivated.

Vladimir: According to my convictions.

Pavlo: Were you a shooter?

Vladimir: Yes. Just a shooter.

Pavlo: How do they treat you here?

Vladimir: It is nice here. It’s better here than in Kyiv. I was treated differently there. Not that the attitude was different but the way they communicated with me was completely different.

Pavlo: Do you need surgery?

Vladimir: No, on the contrary, I am now in recovery.

Pavlo: Are your relatives in Russia?

Vladimir: My relatives don’t know. I haven’t been in touch with them since February when I went on a mission. I only wrote letters but have not received any answer yet; my relatives probably don’t even know that I am alive.

Pavlo: Do you have a wife or children?

Vladimir: There is, and more than one wife. I was officially married once and had three more common-law marriages, and from my common-law wife I have a 6-month-old son.

Pavlo: Would you like to see him?

Vladimir: I’ll see him. Everything has its time.

Pavlo: Do you have political views?

Vladimir: I don’t get involved in politics.

Pavlo: No, well, you supported the regime’s policy.

Vladimir: I don’t get involved in politics. Politics and views on what is happening are two different things. What is happening can be emotional, that is, I didn’t like that something is happening. A person is generally emotional; if he doesn’t like something, he doesn’t do it; if something doesn’t suit him, he doesn’t do it.

Pavlo: Classic, “everyone has their own truth.” But is there a government strategy that you liked or didn’t like? In terms of foreign policy and in terms of domestic policy? For example, the way the Putin regime treated the residents and the way it behaved towards other countries.

Vladimir: Well, listen, there’s no point in me getting involved in this. I talked with ordinary people who live in Donetsk and Lugansk. I have a lot of friends from there. They tell me: “Bro, some crazy stuff is happening!” I say: “Listen, I’ll help you in any way I can.”

What does Putin have to do with it?! It wasn’t Putin who forced me, it was my own desire to help people. It wasn’t Putin who came to me and said: “Listen, you, go sign up.”

Pavlo: Who are you protecting the residents of Donbass from?

Vladimir: You see, there are two points here. Who started the ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation)? It was not Russia that started the ATO.

Pavlo: Yes, at the time of Maidan, when we were doing our business, the annexation of Crimea and aggression in Donbass began, under the sauce of separatism.

Vladimir: Wait, Crimea didn’t leave right away, it left when their electricity was turned off and their water supply stopped. And then they said that Crimea was a hole in the budget of Ukraine, although at that time Crimea was independent, itself…

Pavlo: It was part of Ukraine.

Vladimir: Crimea provided for itself.

Pavlo: Yes, and “polite little men” came without any identification, but in Russian uniforms.

Vladimir: No one came to the territory of Ukraine. The Crimeans expressed a desire to become part of Russia, an expression of the desire of the people. If you want to turn the story upside down, fine let’s do it your way.

Pavlo: A referendum that is not recognized by anyone.

Vladimir: Does the United States recognize when a state tries to leave American influence? No, they don’t. And Ukraine also does not recognize when someone tries to separate from it. Right? No state recognizes that.

Pavlo: It’s clear that you believe it was the self-expression of the people, this is your version. How do you think this war will unfold?

Vladimir: As is always the case, every war ends with negotiations.

Pavlo: Do you think that this regime can negotiate?

Vladimir: What regime?

Pavlo: Putin’s.

Vladimir: What does Putin have to do with it? Is he against negotiations?

Pavlo: Yes, he put an end to it all.

Vladimir: Is Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin against negotiations? Against peace?.

Pavlo: He is for negotiations on Russian terms. He is for the preservation of all these territories. Does Russia really need all these territories?

Vladimir: Why not? These territories are originally Russian.

Pavlo: How far do these original Russian territories go? To Lisbon?

Vladimir: To Kyiv! But not to Lviv. Lviv was not Russian territory, Lviv was Polish territory.

Pavlo: Congratulations, you are a classic Imperialist.

Vladimir: I’m not a classic Imperialist, I studied history, I know?

Pavlo: No, you are chasing the past.

Vladimir: Okay, but the desire to decommunize was not Russian. You expressed a desire to decommunize, didn’t you?

Pavlo: Do you believe that Ukraine, Russia and Belarus are fraternal peoples?

Vladimir: They have always been like that.

Pavlo: Are you ethnically Russian and did your relatives move to Ukraine?

Vladimir: Yes, to Lugansk, Donetsk. More than 20 years have passed, and grandfather was 70 years old, do you think he survived?

Pavlo: Since you have had an amputation, what has changed for you? If you were traded and sent back to Russia would you enlist again? Do you want to be exchanged?

Vladimir: I don’t know anyone here who doesn’t want to be traded.

Pavlo: There are all sorts of things, you won’t believe. If you could, would you enlist again?

Vladimir: First of all, I can’t, I’m disabled now. But if it were necessary, I think any person they ask, even from the Ukrainian side, would say yes, because it is his duty to defend his homeland.

Pavlo: Defend from whom?

Vladimir: What difference does it make from whom?!

Pavlo: Who attacked Russia.

Vladimir: No one attacked Russia, and no one attacked anywhere. People asked Russia for protection, Russia provided protection. There was a Minsk agreement that was violated and at that time Donbass was the territory of the Russian Federation. Putin set the condition that if at least one missile hits Russian territory, there will be a Special military operation. And there was.

Pavlo: Classic blackmail.

Vladimir: This is not blackmail, this is a normal human expression.

Pavlo: You make too many excuses.

Vladimir: I don’t justify anyone, neither one side or the other. First of all, what are both sides to blame for, what? The fact that this conflict began. It’s the fault of the higher-ups, not the common people, you understand? The higher-ups, those who own the money, are neither Zelensky nor Putin, they are simply pawns.

Pavlo: Globalists?

Vladimir: They just appear now, those who have a deep pocket, those who play with money, what are they guilty of? The fact is that simple, innocent people are dying.

Pavlo: Look how many simple “innocent” people are here in prison?

Vladimir: Firstly, there are no ordinary people here, only prisoners of war, these are people who went–even if not consciously, even if they were mobilized by someone–they went to fulfill their duty to their country. Firstly, we have patriotism in any country, and I think it would be the same in the USA or for any well-respected young man if something like this happened. Please, weren’t there more than a few Americans involved in Iraq? And you didn’t go there to defend your America?

Pavlo: No, it was an intervention for the sake of democracy in the world, which, of course, also benefited the military-industrial complex.

Vladimir: Also here, some went for the money, and others went for real reasons.

Pavlo: Yes, but you have tyranny.

Vladimir: Where?

Pavlo: The fact is that Putin is with you. When we had the Maidan revolution, and when we were weak, you came to impose your own order and justify it with this story of defense. We were minding our business doing our thing. We could have lived well, but you did not want us to live well.

Vladimir: We never asked what the crests were up to. You read this somewhere.

Pavlo: All Russian state media, from the broadcasts of Solovyov, all the news was about Ukraine.

Vladimir: Here! This is where the legs grow from. Solovyov.

Pavlo: I see, now you are against propaganda, how convenient. Then I’ll ask it differently, was it worth it?

Vladimir: If I turned back time, I wouldn’t change anything, it means that it was meant to be and will be. It’s not for me to decide, it’s not for anyone to decide, it’s up to God to decide.

Pavlo: You love Russia, then let’s look into the future, will such small common people who don’t decide anything be able to decide the fate of the “beautiful Russia of the future?”

Vladimir: I don’t speak for those at the top, and that it’s up to me to decide, it’s up to the Lord to decide, if it was necessary for the Lord that I ended up in this war, so be it. If I turned back time, I wouldn’t change anything. Why, because it was necessary from above.

Pavlo: So it is fate and not free will. Is there civil society in Russia?

Vladimir: Yes

Pavlo: What does it do?

Vladimir: Human rights. And where in Russia were human rights violated? We have freedom of speech in Russia, I can express myself freely.

Pavlo: Actually, one post or like on Facebook can get you jailed. Well, not on Facebook actually because now Facebook is blocked. People will end up in jail for the slightest sin. Discrediting and slandering the armed forces of the Russian Federation. People stand in the streets with posters with nothing written on them and the police pack them up and take them away.

Vladimir: IT specialists do their work well and use Photoshop.

Pavlo: Your position is clear to me. Do you think the actions of the Russian Federation in Ukraine are the protection of civilians or… ?

Vladimir: These are forced measures.

Pavlo: Granted, but crimes against humanity took place, you not only carried out military operations, you destroyed a lot of civilians here.

Vladimir: Infrastructure?

Pavlo: No, not just infrastructure, people, civilians. Or are these also fakes?

Vladimir: They were simply not evacuated and there was no offer to leave for Russian territory. More than a million Ukrainians now live in the Russian Federation.

Pavlo: Yes, and there is not a single Ukrainian school.

Vladimir: What are you talking about? Did someone forbid them to speak Ukrainian? Did someone forbid them to learn Ukrainian?

Pavlo: Do you know Ukrainian?

Vladimir: Well, no, but I know some words.

Pavlo: Well, can we talk in Ukrainian then?

Vladimir: Well, I don’t understand everything. Those who were interested in the Cossacks will understand.

Pavlo: God help you.